Re: Agreed, but
Fri Feb 03, 11:59

Olds, it is not a given that Doc was a (primary) alcoholic.

Back in the old west days, not only was there no antibiotics for the tuberculin bacteria, but there was also no medication which would decrease the bronchial spasms that Doc would have experienced.

That said, Doc (at least on a subconscious level) would have better pulmonary gas/ oxygen exchange when drinking alcohol related to the alcohol depressant effect.

  • Agreed, butolds, Fri Feb 03 9:26
    He was a dentist. Nobody likes a dentist. They inflict pain. Even worse, he was a tubercular dentist. I'd conjecture that people may have feared his extraction forceps as much as his six-gun. And his cough,... more
    • Dentist DocSarah Stegall, Sun Mar 05 0:12
      ...except that Doc was well versed in the use of ether to treat dental patients; in fact, that's one of the reasons he went to dental school and not medical school. His uncle, whom he was named after,... more
    • Good pointsDan Brown, Fri Feb 03 18:21
      I would add that the disease itself might have affected his attitude. No antibiotics then. Fevers, chills, sweat, coughing, wheezing, coughing blood, pain, and bad breath would certainly shaped his reaction... more
      • Not to mentionSarah Stegall, Sun Mar 05 0:16
        the fact that alcohol is a very effective cough suppressant. I can personally attest to the efficacy of a combination of whiskey, hot water, and lemon. Or we can dispense with the water and lemon altogether.... more
    • Re: Agreed, but — B.J., Fri Feb 03 11:59
      • Rabbit tobaccoRobert Buckley, Sun Feb 05 15:48
        I’ve always been curious if Doc Holliday, being from Georgia, May have used rabbit tobacco to ease the symptoms of his tuberculosis. Many of the old Appalachian doctors that I’ve read about would prescribe... more
      • I get it, Billy.olds, Fri Feb 03 18:03
        I was just agreeing with Dan. Whether Doc technically was what we would consider alcoholic by contemporary standards is a moot point in my opinion. He was a chronic drinker and had good reason to be. He... more
        • Re: I get it, Billy.B.J., Fri Feb 03 23:41
          Hey Olds, I am not sure what argument you are having? Why does it matter if Doc liked himself? Is it a moot point if the current cochise county attorney is an alcoholic? Is it important if the... more
          • What we have hereolds, Sat Feb 04 9:03
            is a failure to communicate. If you don't understand how self-esteem and self-awareness can impact the motivations that drives human behavior, then any explanation I might offer for why that is the case... more
            • Re: What we have hereB.J., Sun Feb 05 5:39
              Hey olds, I’m very impressed with your self anointed behavioral Heath education and expertise. I have two Psych degrees and have worked in behavioral health since 1970 … ….but it appears that you... more
              • No offense intendedDan Brown, Sun Feb 05 15:18
                But it's said that pride goeth before the fall, whilst low self-esteem follows most first dates and bad puns. Good luck to us all.
              • Hit a nerve, eh?olds, Sun Feb 05 10:39
                No disrespect to your stellar c.v., but my understanding of human behavior, as you put it, is essential to what I have been doing for a living since I left grad school in the late 1970s. Whether that... more
        • Good thoughts OldsPeter Love, Fri Feb 03 21:16
          Although I don’t know we have any reliable sources of what Morgan thought of Doc. And from Wyatt’s testimony and later comments about his rivals trying to malign him via Doc, it is evident he was well... more
          • Help me out here, Peter.olds, Sat Feb 04 15:58
            I could swear that I read in more than one source, reliable or otherwise, that Morgan and Doc were "closer" than Doc and Wyatt. Kenny Vail would know, I betcha, but Kenny Vail ain't here. Certainly Doc... more
            • Not surePeter Love, Sat Feb 04 18:41
              At present I’m overseas and just going from memory. However, I thought the ideas that Morgan was a hothead and particularly pally with Doc all emanated from Boyer’s fiction. Certainly there are no newspaper... more
              • Boyer's name is listed in virtually allDan Brown, Sun Feb 05 10:13
                bibliographies concerning Earp and Holliday. Up until the 1990's he dominated the Tombstone legend. Many western writers accepted his claims. So, there may be some mention of a close Doc and Morgan... more
            • Glen BoyerDan Brown, Sat Feb 04 16:44
              pushed the Morgan and Doc as best pals theme. From there Michael Hickey and Ben Traywick may have run with it. I suspect Boyer thought it might have added a little more zest to the vendetta ride. I don't... more
              • Good Lord!olds, Sat Feb 04 21:10
                I've been Boyerzied! This is what happens when, having read too much, you arrive at a certain age and things begin to blur until you no longer can tell Glenn Boyer from Clete Boyer from Chef Boyardee.... more
                • Olds was “Boyerzied“. ??? 😆😆😆B.J., Sun Feb 05 5:52
                  Olds, sorry that you were not administered any pre-op sedation (or at least a lubricant) prior to the history version of your colonoscopy.
                  • As I recall, Icon charged extraDan Brown, Sun Feb 05 15:14
                    for the pre-op sedation. He was that kind of guy. By the way, I have quite a collection of signed Boyer post-op works, which I am very willing to sell to any uninitiated collector of misinformation.
                    • Re: As I recall, Icon charged extraBJ., Sun Feb 05 17:14
                      Hey Dan, I remember years ago visiting Boyer’s (so called) ranch in New Mexico. I questioned Glenn multiple times about the “Clum Manuscript” and asked multiple times if I could check it out. As... more
                      • Re: Re: As I recall, Icon charged extraDan Brown, Mon Feb 06 9:31
                        I heard Boyer used to charge $2.00 to see the bed he claimed Earp passed away in. Over-charges aside, I have wondered to what degree, if any, Boyer believed his own lies? He invested most of his adult... more
                        • Wyatt Earp’s Death Bed….B.J., Mon Feb 06 10:24
                          Boyer used to host an annual get-together at his (so called) ranch. I remember one lady who was a North Texas University Professor, each year would claim “dibs” as the Boyerite who was allowed to sleep... more
                          • Wbo knows what depravity lurksDan Brown, Mon Feb 06 13:45
                            in the hearts of boyerites? His followers were almost cult-like in their defense of him. That's a state only charismatic sociopaths can inspire. As a psychologist you might want to interview her. Get her... more
                        • You and Casey have the deep pleasure inDan Brown, Mon Feb 06 9:36
                          knowing that Icon hated you. He hated this site. He hated being exposed. On the bright side, BJ's Tombstone History Forum probably hastened his final ride...still, his heirs did get a large sum of money... more
                          • Re: You and Casey have the deep pleasure inB.J., Tue Feb 07 14:44
                            This history forum was simply a conduit for the real history heavyweights, all of whom exposed Boyer. The above includes Jack Burrows, Casey Tefertiller, Jeff Morey, Gary Roberts and several others.... more
                            • Boyer WarsPam Potter, Wed Feb 08 8:08
                              "It was the best of times, it was the west of times". The Boyer wars, as they played out on this forum were informative, mentally stimulating and cringe worthy. Maybe it was all necessary to expose fraud... more
                              • Well said, Pam.olds, Wed Feb 08 9:00
                                I certainly posted some cringeworthy stuff, a lot of it actually, back in the day that I wish I hadn't. (Can I plead youth?) But you are correct, it was stimulating, despite the "venom." Unlike yourself,... more
                                • Think of it as frontier justiceDon't Blame Me, Sat Feb 18 15:36
                                  Boyer supplied the rope, Terry the tree, and we just sort of kicked the chair. To Boyer's credit, he just took it in the wrong way.
                              • Oopspam Potter, Wed Feb 08 8:10
                                That should have read "worst" not west but hey considering the topic "west" kind of fits.
                  • Huh?olds, Sun Feb 05 10:30
                    Billy, could you elaborate? I'm apparently too dense to get your point (if there is one).
                    • Re: Huh?B.J., Sun Feb 05 17:00
                      Olds, you only posted one semi-coherent sentence. Are you feeling un-well?
                      • LOL.olds, Sun Feb 05 21:26
                        It's less a matter of feeling unwell than being unwell. That said, I do so loath concision. And clarity, clarity too, which more often than not only confounds.
                        • One might guess why you fall intoDan Brown, Mon Feb 06 13:49
                          the post modernist camp or valley or high plain or whatever you might prefer to call or not call it. Speaking for myself, clarity has never done me much good. It's not like winning the lottery.
                          • I can explain that, Dan.olds, Mon Feb 06 16:30
                            The pomo camp thing. I was mentored as an undergrad by Dr. Ihab Hassan. You can Google him, but to save you the trouble, I'll just remark that he was one of the earliest American (he was himself Egyptian)... more
                            • God is clearly on your side (nm)Dan Brown, Fri Feb 24 6:59
                              • Is that a good thing,olds, Fri Feb 24 18:36
                                a bad thing, or a wash? Well, if He or She or It is clearly on my side, I might only wish that that entity or energy or force or First Cause or whatever, was a little less clear about it. Half the... more
                            • Words...Sharon Cunningham, Tue Feb 07 8:52
                              Oh...My...Gosh! I see that Olds is back at this primary job of wordsmithing! Never fails to quick, quick send me scurrying for my Oxford! Don't stop, Olds; keeps us old folks on out toes!
                              • Well, that is my primary jobolds, Tue Feb 07 11:06
                                I reckon, though I feel at this point that I had little say in the matter. I didn't choose it, it chose me. Anyway, being old myself, I suppose you could say, Sharon, that I'm keeping myself on my toes... more
        • A sense of humor canDan Brown, Fri Feb 03 18:40
          bouy low self-esteem. We sort of know what others thought of him, but I am inclined to think that he brought more than cards to the table. Low self-esteem, self-loathing, and guilt, when mixed with a quart... more
          • Speaking of a sense of humor,olds, Sat Feb 04 9:23
            that one brought a smile to my face: "not killing people is what's hard." Very good. True then, true now. In my experience, a sense of humor cannot only buoy self-esteem, it can be a life-saver. (No,... more
    • Good Grief, Olds!...Joyce A. Aros, Fri Feb 03 10:39
      ...Did you have to???
      • I believe I did, Joyce,olds, Fri Feb 03 17:13
        have to. Consider, it could have been far worse. I could have included a brief, capsule history of toilet paper as well (which wasn't widely available out West until the post-Civil War era), which is... more
        • Olds/ well, I am not really that...Joyce A. Aros, Sat Feb 04 6:31
          ...squeamish. When working cattle with my husband years ago I did learn that a wadded up bunch of dried grasses was as comfortable as you were going to get sometimes. We all survived quite well without... more
        • Well said, I wouldn't want to go too far backDan Brown, Fri Feb 03 18:41
          in time with out the booster shots.
          • Dan/ I understand your feelings...Joyce A. Aros, Sat Feb 04 6:33
            ...on the matter but then people like me feel that there is a limit to how much chemicals we want punched into our bodies; especially when we don't always know exactle what they consist of. To each hi... more
            • Re: Dan/ I understand your feelings...Dan Brown, Sat Feb 04 12:26
              I'm glad you understand my feelings, Joyce, but personally,I often suspect them of not being entirely on my side. So far as toxins go, it may be prudent to assume that we're already walking time bombs... more