Joyce A. Aros
the guilty party....
Fri Dec 31, 16:54

...that would be me, regarding the article you referred to. Frankly, I am appreciative you even bothered to read it as many see my name and do not choose to as I have a difficult time believing everything Wyatt Earp CLAIMS.

You argue that I suggested the cowboys did not come into town too often. That is what I said, but because Ike came in and then came back five days later hardly suggests they all rode in and out every few days like Roy Rogers, If you wish to be critical, that is fine. I have no problem with that but at least be reasonable and fair. You also did not bother to note that the newspapers made mention that when they did come into town they turned in their guns and were orderly and quiet.

Then you enlarge on my words and suggest I said the cowboys could not walk anywhere and so would not have left their horses down the street in the gulch. I assume you must be a working cowboy and base such criticism on daily work experience. However, for reasons I am unable to understand, you are not terribly dependant on your horse as were these guys...Oh, I forget: you depend on a pick-up truck.

I never said they couldn't or wouldn't walk; I said cowboys of the day did not like to be too far away from their mounts, not if they were expecting to need them shortly for transport. Of course Ike and Tom put up their team. They couldn't keep them in an hotel room so it was a sensible choice.

Neither did I claim cowboys never used shotguns! Good grief! Can you not read? I don't feel the need to go into the reasoning on that one. Just try reading it again without so much bias!

I am not an expert with guns of any sort but logic and reason suggest to me that one man who is a good rifle shot would have done a cleaner and more effective job for such a distance. The main streets in Tombstone at the time were said to be 70 feet. Three shotguns? That seems impractical to me but you know more about guns than I so I have no defense on that one.

The accounts of the animosity you also refer to seem to originate from Wyatt Earp's mouth, as does many of the gospels that are never questioned when he tells it. So you can accept it all if you like, but much of it is open to question because there is never any real support for it.

Lots of saddle bums in the southern area rustled cattle out of Mexico. Usually for drinking money, not real profit. Corriente cattle out of Mexico at the time dressed out at about 300 pounds; not much Dinero there. American cattle, the purchase and sale of such on record by the Clantons and McLaurys, dressed out at double that. A little more cash toward building a ranch. You need to check the bank records and see where Tom got the money. It is also in the newspaper that he and Frank and another rancher had just closed a deal with Bauer's Meat market for six hundred cattle that week. A legit deal with more than one butcher in town. Their reputation as stockmen was solid!

Glad you are feeling better now; so do I!

Best regards,
Joyce Aros,
amateur author.

  • Ambush article in T S TIMESRvn4fun, Fri Dec 31 15:10
    I'm sorry if I stir the pot here, but! The article was OK in describing the events of Virgils attempted assassination - then the usual cowboys can do no wrong the Earps are trash begins. THE COW... more
    • the guilty party.... — Joyce A. Aros, Fri Dec 31 16:54
      • Forgot to mention...Joyce A. Aros, Sun Jan 09 6:43
        When one plans to assassinate someone on the street in a busy town, one usually does not leave their get-away car three blocks away and down in a gulch as described in the 'Virgil account.' Better pla... more
        • Obvious goalsMike Mihaljevich, Sun Jan 09 22:27
          As always, your priority is to preserve the valor of the Boys and not to contribute to meaningful, objective conversation. This bias makes it impossible to take your comments seriously and is at time... more
          • Obvious goals?Joyce A. Aros, Mon Jan 10 6:06
            Hello Mike, I certainly would not want to ask you to waste valuable time explaining what you find wrong with my comments and why they have no practical value, but I am lost as to exactly which comm... more
          • The "Dirty Deed"Eddie Lanham, Mon Jan 10 3:38
            There is no doubt who shot Virgil and Morgan. All were cowards of the lowest form who assassinated their victims under the cover of darkness.
            • Re: The "Dirty Deed"Joyce A. Aros, Mon Jan 10 6:10
              Eddie,I am hoping you might offer some actual evidence to support such a strong statement?
              • MurderEddie Lanham, Mon Jan 10 16:01
                Roy B. Young confirmed what Wyatt and others thought. Assassin: The premeditated act of killing someone suddenly or secretively, especially a prominent person.
                • Murder! Perhaps...Joyce A. Aros, Mon Jan 10 16:24
                  Eddie, We all know what Wyatt THOUGHT, but what is the actual evidence? Most of Wyatt's THOUGHTS didn't demonstrate any real support and usually the names he used to back himself up were people who w... more
                  • Dirty Deed 2Eddie Lanham, Wed Jan 12 3:47
                    Besides Wyatt's testimony, McMaster testified that he had a conversation with Ike in Charleston the night of the shooting in which he (Ike) said he'd "have to go back and do the job over". Also, Parso... more
                    • Dirty deed 2...Joyce A. Aros, Wed Jan 12 6:08
                      Hi Eddie, Well, from my side of the coin, one can only imagine Ike's disappointment over the failed success of the attempt to finish off an Earp after his brother's killing. Not unusual to make such ... more
                      • RanchersEddie Lanham, Wed Jan 12 9:25
                        Joyce, We could go back and forth on this for days and never agree. I honestly believe that the McLaurys were ranchers, but I believe the Clantons, at least the "Old Man" and Ike, were as my mother wo... more
                        • Eddie;ranchers....Joyce A. Aros, Wed Jan 12 9:47
                          Hi there, Eddie Thank you for the kind invitation. I would love to attend TTR next time but I have been afraid I'd be shot at some point so have stayed home and tried to keep my mouth shut. You hav... more
                  • MurderPam Potter, Tue Jan 11 5:29
                    Have you read Roy Young's WWHA Journal article Who Killed Morgan Earp? or seen the WWHA YouTube video on the same topic? It is more than just" Wyatt's Thoughts". more
                    • Pam/ I admit I have not....Joyce A. Aros, Tue Jan 11 5:39
                      Hello Pam, I have to admit I have not read the article or if I had it is so long ago I had forgotten the details. I will follow your suggestion and look it up as there is always more to examine on th... more
                      • Thanks to Pam...Joyce A. Aros, Tue Jan 11 16:09
                        Pam, I did watch the video and enjoyed it very much. It was a very pleasant presentation, very reasonable. However, it really doesn't answer the question as to who tried to assassinate Virgil, wh... more
        • They left Ike's hat at the scene to frame him? (nm)DL Staley, Sun Jan 09 20:52
          • DL/frame job?...Joyce A. Aros, Mon Jan 10 7:09
            If that hat had belonged to Ike Clanton, it would NOT have been left behind no matter what the consequences. I am not suggesting Ike was some sort of hero; just that he, like all cowboys, would not be... more
            • Ike's HatDan Brown, Sun Jan 16 12:45
              Ike was likely too busy skeedaddling from the crime scene to be worrying about his hat. I Figure he had at aleast a pint of See-it-Through in him before the ambush. What we know about Ike's actions at... more
              • Okay, Dan....Joyce A. Aros, Sun Jan 16 16:03
                Are you just bored or need someone to pick on? You have to know by now that Ike had witnesses for the Virgil thing, one was McMasters, an Earp buddy. Ike was in Charleston at the time. During Morga... more
                • One or the other, I suppose...Dan Brown, Wed Jan 19 9:05
                  Well, as you've pointed out, the allegations against Ike were dismissed due to the lack of evidence. A found hat, Ike's or not, is evidence of only one thing: a lost hat. But we can be fairly cert... more
                  • a fair argument....Joyce A. Aros, Wed Jan 19 12:16
           a point. I don't know if you wish me 'good luck' in defending my viewpoint or if you are dismissing me because you've had enough of me. Who could blame you? Everyone knows I don't give up too ea... more
                    • As Grouch saidDan Brown, Thu Jan 27 7:32
                      "I'd rather be lucky than talented." You stated that I seem unwilling to acknowledge that no one other than the Earps said that Ike was drunk. That is one two edged dull sword. It's would be sort ... more
                      • two-edged sword, indeed...Joyce A. Aros, Thu Jan 27 11:01
                        Good point, but it goes around in a circle. My argument has always been against the constant accusation, so to speak, of Ike being the 'drunken buffoon' who caused all the trouble. It is repeated as t... more
          • Re: They left Ike's hat at the scene to frame him? (nm)Nick Rodgers, Sun Jan 09 22:38
            I would think Ike’s hat at the crime scene would be considered evidence.?
            • Ike's hat again...Joyce A. Aros, Mon Jan 10 6:14
              Nick, I never suggested any such idea, but why do you think the hat was Ike's? In a courtroom it was established no name was on the hat; no one knew how long it had been there, what type of hat it ... more
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