Jones - Your presentation is great - especially working in the viewpoints of various witnesses. I commend your parsing of the testimony as well. To resolve all the conflicts is quite a feat - one I'... more
Regarding Holliday and the shotgun and pistol:
There's no reason he can't handle both at the same time. Shotgun in one hand, pistol in the other. Shooting a gun, even a shotgun, with on... more
Everyone in the area was ask about what the cowboys did with their hands. Bourland's testimony was considered along with all the rest.
I had an interest in this for a specific reason... more
...Addie says she saw Doc step up to Frank, jab him in the gut with his pistol, step back a few steps and shots were fired. Frank grabbed his gut and turned away toward the street still holding the ho... more
"Frank grabbed his gut and turned away toward the street..."
I've never heard this before.
Frank won't be shot until after he's out in the street.
(Q) How long did you continue to look at the par... more
...think Frank was not shot until after he was out in the
He was shot in the gut. Doc was on the walkway area still and Frank would had had to stop and turn toward him if he was to be sho... more
Sorry Joyce, but I'm not quite following along with this one.
If frank was shot with one of the first shots he'd be staggering around on the sidewalk, not running out into the road.
Yes, he has to... more
...Addie saw Doc approach Frank and jab him in the gut with what she believed was a large pistol of sorts. Addie, as you noted, was a reluctant witness. When Doc prodded Frank and then stepped back a ... more
Joyce wrote: "and Frank immediately turned and staggered toward her or her general direction."
I don't recall this anywhere in the testimony.
Joyce wrote: "Frank was gut-shot at the outset"
By "o... more
....It was not in the testimony as you say, but how else did Frank's body end up on the other side of Fremont street, in the general area of her home which was almost across from Fry's? He was witness... more
...You will have to set those romantic interests aside, Jones. Addie's husband was a merchant from Arkansas, sold cigars pipes, stationary, confectionary and all kinds of fancy goods. he also invested... more
Joyce, sorry to jump in here, but there are certain things you never forget. About 12 or 14 years ago, there was a mention of William Bourland being a member of the coroner's jury for the murder of Mo... more
...this is what we do in trying to help put the whole picture together in the right way. I appreciate your digging around and clearing up any discrepancies.
And there is a discrepancy. Epitaph reco... more
Joyce, this kind of reminds me of the confusion between Billy Allens. For years we read that Doc Holliday encountered the Billy Allen that witnessed the shootout when he ended up in Leadville, Colorad... more
...with the tremendous amount of work involved in this presentation. What a feat! However, it does give us a really good opportunity to view the whole thing more openly, for sure.
I am impressed as... more
I think most of your questions about the lawmen can be summed up by saying, people do whatever they have to do to stay out of prison.
Isn't shooting an unarmed man a hanging offense?
as Ike said "the ball will open". Bob Cash has already brought up my post on Billy's horse(thanks, Bob)and why it's presence is so important - Tom McLaury using it as a barricade or trying to get the ... more
Obviously I think Hatch is not correct.
Here are statements from six witnesses. All of them have the lawmen passing by Behan and no mention of any further action on his part. If Behan had run up in... more
All of these people are talking about what occurred near Bauer's when the Earps brushed by Behan. Hatch should be added to that list, since that's what he said happened there too. Hatch was the only w... more
I'm ok with Behan's testimony. He doesn't see any of the scramble after the first two shots. The only thing he seems to know about after the first two shots is that Ike ran into Fly's after the fift... more
If those were actually the first 4 shots, why all the concern from prosecution witnesses about the nickel-plated pistol. Behan: "the nickel-plated pistol was the first to fire". These witnesses seemed... more
"These witnesses seemed determined to ..."
I expect this is at least some of the reason we view things differently. I don't see them as being determined to do anything. Just witnesses telling what ... more
...It is only fair to offer 'the benefit of the doubt' to all the witnesses and as you say, most were truth tellers, at least six seem quite reliable.
We have people caught in the moment and others... more
I found value in all the testimonies. Even those, that for whatever reason, are incorrect.
Regarding the testimony:
I think people under estimate how much is missing. Ike spent two or three days... more
I do not think there are missing parts of the testimony. Here's why. We have the original court reporters pages, and the Nugget's reporting for the Coroner's inquest. Keep in mind the Nugget's reporte... more
Ike Clanton's testimony
November 9-15, 1881
Ike spent four days in the court room.
The entirety of his testimony can be read aloud in one hour. That's a lot of court room time for what little verb... more
Jones if you've ever been in a courtroom you'll know it takes a lot more time to get the work done than just the time it would take to read the transcripts out loud. I was in a jury on a medical malpr... more
I've managed to dodge jury duty up to this point so I'll take your word for it.
I didn't realize that only one hour of the spoken word was the norm for a weeks worth of testimony. Only the government... more
I am evaluating the whole thing from the existing recorded testimonies. I do not change a word. I know that there are sure to be many other words spoken at the time but we don't have those, do we? So ... more
...please note in Virgil's testimony how he focuses on Billy Clanton, completely condensing the whole scenario by eliminating the attack on Frank and the shotgun blast at Tom.
Virgil focuses totall... more
Agree with you on the Earp brothers story.
I think the video is plenty clear about my opinion of the lawman story.
I think they chose Billy as the initial shooter because he was farthest into the va... more
There could easily enough be two horses there. Plenty of contradicting info as to whether there's one or two. I never really attempted to make a call on this one because it doesn't mak... more