Sun Apr 10, 11:12

Thank you.

There could easily enough be two horses there. Plenty of contradicting info as to whether there's one or two. I never really attempted to make a call on this one because it doesn't make any difference. As I put it in the video "If there is a second horse it has no effect on the fight since it would be the only thing to exit the scene of the fight faster than Ike Clanton."

The court reporter mixes up Frank and Tom a lot in this part. Frank runs out into the street with his horse, Tom runs down to the corner (no horse.)

Something often overlooked is "time". One of the interesting things about resolving the fight in a simulation is that time can't be overlooked.
So I'll consider this in the context of time (a different way than the usual to look at it.)

Frank runs out into the street with his horse. Draws his gun. Is gut shot. And then shots one shot towards the vacant lot. The shot frank shots back towards the vacant lot occurs about 10 seconds after the first shots.
From the time Frank starts his run for the other side of the street until he hits the ground occupies about 7.5 seconds.
Frank hits the ground at about the 24 second mark.
So the amount of time left over is about (24 - (7.5 + 10)) = 6.5 seconds.
Subtract off a second or two for a shot fired back towards the vacant lot before he starts his run to the other side of the street, and that leaves us about 5 seconds for Frank to be seen staggering around in the street.

Tom goes to the ground before Frank is seen firing the first shot back towards Fly's. I have Tom hitting the ground about 7 seconds after the first shots (a touch sooner than I think it could be.)

The point to made here is that there isn't enough time for many extras. If tom is going to be grabbing for rifles and running behind horses then time needs to allocated for this. And we only have a couple of seconds to play with here.

Virgil's statement: "At the crack of the first two pistols, the horse jumped to one side, and Tom McLaury failed to get the Winchester. He threw his hand back this way [shows the motion]. He followed the movement of the horse around, making him a kind of breastwork, and fired once, if not twice, over the horse's back."
The court reporter made a lot of errors. This is Virgil talking about Frank. Frank is the Mclaury brother that runs out into the street with a horse.
And there's something interesting about this that I was surprised took me so long to catch on to. If Frank is holding the reins of the horse and the horse jumps to one side, that's going to pull Franks arm back and up towards the horse's head. Sounds like the defense team was trying to make the most of it.

    • Great presentationpaul j, Wed Apr 13 14:34
      Jones - Your presentation is great - especially working in the viewpoints of various witnesses. I commend your parsing of the testimony as well. To resolve all the conflicts is quite a feat - one I'... more
      • Holliday and the shotgunJones, Wed Apr 13 18:11
        Thank you. Regarding Holliday and the shotgun and pistol: There's no reason he can't handle both at the same time. Shotgun in one hand, pistol in the other. Shooting a gun, even a shotgun, with on... more
    • Upraised handsMark Robeson, Sun Apr 10 9:40
      Why do you have the cowboys with hands raised? I believe Borland clearly testified that she saw noone with their hands up. Very well done, really enjoyed it.
      • Addie, Hands, and the Start of the FightJones, Mon Apr 11 9:42
        Thank you. Everyone in the area was ask about what the cowboys did with their hands. Bourland's testimony was considered along with all the rest. I had an interest in this for a specific reason... more
        • Addie and what she didn't see....Joyce A. Aros, Mon Apr 11 18:25
          ...Addie says she saw Doc step up to Frank, jab him in the gut with his pistol, step back a few steps and shots were fired. Frank grabbed his gut and turned away toward the street still holding the ho... more
          • re: Addie and what she didn't seeJones, Tue Apr 12 12:38
            "Frank grabbed his gut and turned away toward the street..." I've never heard this before. Frank won't be shot until after he's out in the street. (Q) How long did you continue to look at the par... more
            • Jones/why do you...Joyce A. Aros, Tue Apr 12 17:13
              ...think Frank was not shot until after he was out in the street? He was shot in the gut. Doc was on the walkway area still and Frank would had had to stop and turn toward him if he was to be sho... more
              • Who shot FrankJones, Tue Apr 12 20:53
                Sorry Joyce, but I'm not quite following along with this one. If frank was shot with one of the first shots he'd be staggering around on the sidewalk, not running out into the road. Yes, he has to... more
                • Jones, who shot Frank...Joyce A. Aros, Wed Apr 13 10:11
                  ...Addie saw Doc approach Frank and jab him in the gut with what she believed was a large pistol of sorts. Addie, as you noted, was a reluctant witness. When Doc prodded Frank and then stepped back a ... more
                  • re: who shot FrankJones, Wed Apr 13 11:05
                    Joyce wrote: "and Frank immediately turned and staggered toward her or her general direction." I don't recall this anywhere in the testimony. Joyce wrote: "Frank was gut-shot at the outset" By "o... more
                    • Jones; Frank turned...Joyce A. Aros, Wed Apr 13 18:47
                      ....It was not in the testimony as you say, but how else did Frank's body end up on the other side of Fremont street, in the general area of her home which was almost across from Fry's? He was witness... more
                      • re: Frank turnedJones, Wed Apr 13 19:32
                        Interesting take on it. I like Addie. Took some guts for a single gal to live where she did. Best wishes, Jones
                        • Addie BourlandJoyce A. Aros, Thu Apr 14 7:26
                          ...You will have to set those romantic interests aside, Jones. Addie's husband was a merchant from Arkansas, sold cigars pipes, stationary, confectionary and all kinds of fancy goods. he also invested... more
                          • MarriedJones, Thu Apr 14 14:53
                            Addie was married! Darn it! Why are the good ones always taken ;-) Bet that gal had some interesting stories to tell. Best wishes, Jones
                          • William Bourland vs Samuel BorlandJerry Prather, Thu Apr 14 9:18
                            Joyce, sorry to jump in here, but there are certain things you never forget. About 12 or 14 years ago, there was a mention of William Bourland being a member of the coroner's jury for the murder of Mo... more
                            • Jerry/thank you!Joyce A. Aros, Thu Apr 14 10:18
                              ...this is what we do in trying to help put the whole picture together in the right way. I appreciate your digging around and clearing up any discrepancies. And there is a discrepancy. Epitaph reco... more
                              • What's in a nameJerry Prather, Thu Apr 14 10:49
                                Joyce, this kind of reminds me of the confusion between Billy Allens. For years we read that Doc Holliday encountered the Billy Allen that witnessed the shootout when he ended up in Leadville, Colorad... more
      • I am so impressed...Joyce A. Aros, Mon Apr 11 8:19
        ...with the tremendous amount of work involved in this presentation. What a feat! However, it does give us a really good opportunity to view the whole thing more openly, for sure. I am impressed as... more
        • I Hear Prison Sucks...Jones, Mon Apr 11 11:43
          Thank you. I think most of your questions about the lawmen can be summed up by saying, people do whatever they have to do to stay out of prison. Isn't shooting an unarmed man a hanging offense? A... more
    • Very well done and interesting, but...Jerry Prather, Sat Apr 09 18:33
      as Ike said "the ball will open". Bob Cash has already brought up my post on Billy's horse(thanks, Bob)and why it's presence is so important - Tom McLaury using it as a barricade or trying to get the ... more
      • Behan/HatchJones, Sun Apr 10 11:00
        Obviously I think Hatch is not correct. Here are statements from six witnesses. All of them have the lawmen passing by Behan and no mention of any further action on his part. If Behan had run up in... more
        • Johnny doesn't say, Hatch does.Jerry Prather, Mon Apr 11 11:32
          All of these people are talking about what occurred near Bauer's when the Earps brushed by Behan. Hatch should be added to that list, since that's what he said happened there too. Hatch was the only w... more
          • Behan and Hitching PostsJones, Mon Apr 11 13:41
            I'm ok with Behan's testimony. He doesn't see any of the scramble after the first two shots. The only thing he seems to know about after the first two shots is that Ike ran into Fly's after the fift... more
            • Where's the nickel-plated pistol?Jerry Prather, Mon Apr 11 14:45
              If those were actually the first 4 shots, why all the concern from prosecution witnesses about the nickel-plated pistol. Behan: "the nickel-plated pistol was the first to fire". These witnesses seemed... more
              • DeterminedJones, Mon Apr 11 16:26
                "These witnesses seemed determined to ..." I expect this is at least some of the reason we view things differently. I don't see them as being determined to do anything. Just witnesses telling what ... more
                • Jones/determined....Joyce A. Aros, Mon Apr 11 19:10
                  ...It is only fair to offer 'the benefit of the doubt' to all the witnesses and as you say, most were truth tellers, at least six seem quite reliable. We have people caught in the moment and others... more
                  • TestimoniesJones, Tue Apr 12 12:42
                    I found value in all the testimonies. Even those, that for whatever reason, are incorrect. Regarding the testimony: I think people under estimate how much is missing. Ike spent two or three days... more
                    • Testmonies, are there missing bits.Gail Allan, Tue Apr 12 21:02
                      I do not think there are missing parts of the testimony. Here's why. We have the original court reporters pages, and the Nugget's reporting for the Coroner's inquest. Keep in mind the Nugget's reporte... more
                      • re: are there missing bitsJones, Wed Apr 13 10:32
                        Ike Clanton's testimony November 9-15, 1881 Ike spent four days in the court room. The entirety of his testimony can be read aloud in one hour. That's a lot of court room time for what little verb... more
                        • Testimonies and courtroom time.Gail Allan, Wed Apr 13 12:06
                          Jones if you've ever been in a courtroom you'll know it takes a lot more time to get the work done than just the time it would take to read the transcripts out loud. I was in a jury on a medical malpr... more
                          • re: Testimonies and courtroom timeJones, Wed Apr 13 13:18
                            I've managed to dodge jury duty up to this point so I'll take your word for it. I didn't realize that only one hour of the spoken word was the norm for a weeks worth of testimony. Only the government... more
                    • Testimonies...Joyce A. Aros, Tue Apr 12 17:22
                      I am evaluating the whole thing from the existing recorded testimonies. I do not change a word. I know that there are sure to be many other words spoken at the time but we don't have those, do we? So ... more
                      • Jones/follow up to testimonies.....Joyce A. Aros, Tue Apr 12 18:21
                        ...please note in Virgil's testimony how he focuses on Billy Clanton, completely condensing the whole scenario by eliminating the attack on Frank and the shotgun blast at Tom. Virgil focuses totall... more
                        • re: testimoniesJones, Tue Apr 12 20:49
                          Agree with you on the Earp brothers story. I think the video is plenty clear about my opinion of the lawman story. I think they chose Billy as the initial shooter because he was farthest into the va... more
    • WOW! Very interesting. Thank you, Jones.Bob Cash, Sat Apr 09 16:16
      This will re-ignite hours of debate over a measly 30 seconds. I'll Jerry Prather point out one major error. Jerry Prather Billy's horse Tue May 25, 2021 8:10 Was Billy Clanton's horse in the l... more
      • Horse(s) — Jones, Sun Apr 10 11:12
  • Click here to receive daily updates