Bob Cash
Re: re: Sources
Sun Apr 17, 21:45

Thank you for this, Jones. I was not aware of the "Famous Trials" page and it will be a useful "go to" document when I want to check out some of the testimony. I do notice that assistant district attorney W.S. Williams' testimony is not in the three source documents you sent me. Did you for some reason decide his testimony was of little or no importance?Were the Hatch and Lucas testimonies from Turner's or the Hayhurst manuscript or were they from the NUGGET or EPITAPH reporting of the testimony? I ask because it does not appear that you had access to the newspaper versions. The EPITAPH has a couple of paragraphs of Mrs. King's testimony that appear nowhere else. Only the EPITAPH version includes a sentence of Lucas's testimony that is of great importance and answers a question about a controversial statement that Spicer made in his decision statement. The NUGGET's report on Hatch's testimony contains parts that are condensed or truncation in Turner's.

I don't have access to my Nugget and Epitaph transcripts right now, but do have this post I did a few years back about the part of Lucas's testimony I noticed that appears nowhere else to my knowledge. Thank you for all the thought, time, and effort you put into your graphic presentation. I've never seen anything quite like it.

Further disparities in Turner transcript
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:03

In the EPITAPH version, Judge Lucas, after describing Billy standing and firing his pistol, says he looked elsewhere for a moment and as he looked back at Billy, "JUST THEN I saw from his movements that he was wounded." This "Just then..." does not appear in the NUGGET or Turner version. However another entire sentence that does not appear in Turner does appear in both the newspapers' transcripts and it also speaks to Lucas seeing Billy fire before and after he saw him appear to be wounded. After the next few sentences, in which Lucas describes Billy's struggle to hold himself up and eventually sliding down the wall (essentially the same in Turner, EPITAPH and NUGGET), both papers quote Lucas thusly, " I think his pistol was discharged twice FROM THE TIME I THOUGHT HE WAS HIT(my emphasis) until he was down on the ground." Even without the qualifier "just then" that appears in The EPITAPH, this sentence from Lucas (missing entirely in Turner) clearly demonstrates that Spicer was NOT wrong, as most of us thought for years, when stating, "...Judge Lucas says he saw him fire or in the act of firing several shots before he was shot...". I have no idea whether these omissions were errors on the part of Hayhurst, Lake, or Turner.

Judge J. H. Lucas testimony from the EPITAPH transcript:

“I was sitting in my office and heard a couple of reports from guns or pistols. I hesitated a moment and heard a couple more reports. I then started for the upper hall door; whilst going I heard four or five or perhaps more reports. When I got to the door I cast my eyes up and down the street. I saw a man I supposed to have been Billy Clanton standing in front of a little house just below fly’s building. He had his pistol up, and I thought was firing. For fear of a stray ball I drew my head in for an instant. I looked again, and still saw him standing there with his pistol and as I thought fighting. I drew my head in again. I looked again and still saw him with his pistol. I continued to look at him for a moment and saw no one else at that time that I thought was in the fight or had weapons. JUST THEN I saw from his movement that he was wounded. His body seemed to bend a little, his pistol went up above his head as he seemed to be in the act of falling. In struggling to prevent himself from falling. I think he caught with his hand on the window or wall, partly turning around. He continued to struggle until he got clean down on the ground. I THINK HIS PISTOL WAS DISCHARGED TWICE FROM THE TIME I THOUGHT HE WAS HIT UNTIL HE WAS DOWN ON THE GROUND. About the time he got on the ground the firing ceased.”

    • re: SourcesJones, Sat Apr 16 19:07
      Somewhere in the video I state that the sim was created, with only one exception, from the testimony and coroner's reports. The exception was used to solve who shot Frank in the head at the end of th... more
      • Re: re: Sources — Bob Cash, Sun Apr 17 21:45
        • SeriesJones, Mon Apr 18 14:32
          Let me start by saying, it didn't turn out the way I thought it would either. I think this will help to explain a lot. If I was going to explain to someone how to recreate the sim, looking back on... more
        • re: re: SourcesJones, Mon Apr 18 14:25
          Bob Cash wrote: "I do notice that assistant district attorney W.S. Williams' testimony is not in the three source documents ..." First time I've heard of him. If he had eyes on the fight it would be... more
          • Re: re: re: SourcesBob Cash, Mon Apr 18 14:51
            Jones, W.S. Williams was a newly appointed assistant District Attorney who testified about a conversation he heard John Behan have with Virgil Earp on the evening of October 26th. He was not a witnes... more
            • Who fired first?Bob Cash, Mon Apr 18 21:13
              Did Richard Rule's article and William's testimony make the case that Behan changed his original story? ... more
              • Bob/ just thinking...againJoyce A. Aros, Thu Apr 21 16:32
                ...I am wondering why you visualize Tom McLaury, who the Earps claim was armed with a pistol and actually attempted to use it, trying to get a rifle off of Billy's horse? If Tom had a pistol, with ... more
              • re: Who fired first?Jones, Tue Apr 19 14:33
                When I first started the project I didn't know who fired the first shots. So I just left everyone's hands at their sides, then continued on with the rest of the fight. After the fist two shots the t... more
                • Jones/see my post to Bob Cash....Joyce A. Aros, Tue Apr 19 18:47
                  ...about Doc's switcharoo. It's quite simple and we have all done it a lot of times when fixing fence, yard work, repairs on the house, ect.
              • Bob, unless you have a good reason...Joyce A. Aros, Tue Apr 19 7:44
       reject Kehoe's testimony, I think you might examine it again. He is an excellent position to see what happened in the street. He cannot see into the lot as he is in front of Bauer's, but the Ear... more
        • As usual, I have a problem...Joyce A. Aros, Mon Apr 18 5:16
          ...with Judge Lucas this time. Is there anyone I don't have a problem with? It's 4:00 am so can't sleep and might as well read. I am not looking at the picture of the Gird building right now but se... more
          • LucasJones, Mon Apr 18 15:46
            I'm ok with Lucas for the most part. He sees Billy firing his gun from the corner of the little house and has the fight ending when Billy is disabled. Fits in well enough with the rest of the testim... more
            • not very comforting...Joyce A. Aros, Tue Apr 19 6:53
              ...I would not like to be the defendant and have you as a juror. I'd like to think a juror would expect more of of a witness than to determine 'that's okay,' or 'good enough.' What he says he see... more
              • LegalizeJones, Tue Apr 19 14:40
                That made me lol :-) I've never considered the fight from a legal standpoint. I'll leave that for the lawyers. When Lucas gets to the door, Billy is already at the corner of the little house. Lu... more
                • Jones/ I think Lucas, from his own description...Joyce A. Aros, Wed Apr 20 7:24
                  ...never left his chair until he heard the first two shots. The first shot would have been the duel shots fired at the same time by Doc and Morgan, so close they sounded as one. The second one he hear... more
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