Jones
re: Re: re: a question...
Fri Jul 22, 16:34

Yes sir. You are correct.
I put the post together from memory and notes. Should have put a caveat with it.

When evaluating Coleman's testimony it's important to keep in mind that after the first two shots he is going to be alongside of a building and won't be able to see Billy until Billy comes out past the store fronts onto the sidewalk. Also, Coleman has to stick his head out past the store fronts to see down the sidewalk.
Some of his comments about Billy sound more like what I would expect to be said about Frank. Perhaps some names got mixed up.

As for Billy in general:
He's central to why the fight unfolds the way it does. Billy poses three problems that have to be solved. One crops up after the other.

Problem 1:
15 seconds after the first two shots are fired Billy will be at the corner of the little house, still alive and active.
Six or so seconds after the first shots Ike is gone, Tom is gone enough, Frank is arriving out in the street with his horse. And Billy and the lawmen are in close enough together to spit on each other.
Billy still being alive and active 15 seconds after the first shots has to be explained.

Problem 2:
Billy shot's Morgan in the back 15 seconds after the first shots.
Certainly the lawmen aren't going to stand idly by and watch their little brother get shot in the back. How does he get away with this.
This has to be explained.

Problem 3:
After Billy shots Morgan, I would expect the lawmen to rip him a new one, quickly. But Billy is alive and active until the end of the fight.
And this also has to be explained.

I had to contend with these three problems putting the sim together.
My solutions were:

Problem 1:
Billy can't be seen touching his gun.
I can find no other rational explanation for him being at the corner of the little house, still alive and active 15 seconds after the first shots.

Problem 2:
No one is paying attention to Billy. Their attentions are else where.
I expect the last anyone took notice of Billy he appeared to be collapsing at the corner of the little house.
Billy engaging in the fight at this point is a surprise, especially to Morgan.

Problem 3:
Virgil is hit at this point, so that explains him not attacking Billy.
For Wyatt, when he takes notice of what going on in the street, he has two active shooters. So there's a 50/50 chance that he won't target Billy. Also, Billy is shooting out towards the street away from him and Frank is shooting back towards him, and possibly just hit his big brother. Frank is the bigger threat to Wyatt making him the logical one to have his attention on.
Billy survives until the end of the fight.


Solving Problem 1, "15 seconds after the first two shots are fired Billy will be at the corner of the little house, still alive and active.", is how it is determined that Billy did not draw and shoot at Wyatt at the start of the fight, not because of what anyone said he did with his hands. This tells us something that Billy didn't do with his hands, but not what he did with his hands. I expect after being shot his hands are wrapped around his body, that has to hurt a bunch. Up until then, there's plenty of support for him raising his hands.

All this is represented in the sim.
Anyway, those are some considerations when evaluating Billy.
Your mileage may vary.


Jones

  • Re: re: a question...Bob Cash, Thu Jul 21 8:51
    Jones, I believe you misread Coleman's testimony about Billy Clanton. From Turner transcript "I was not in a position to see whether they threw their hands up or not when ordered, but was just in the act... more
    • re: Re: re: a question... — Jones, Fri Jul 22 16:34