Joyce A. Aros
This whole account is so...
Wed Dec 28, 2022 10:34

...elusive that it constantly intrigues. It has to indicate that someone somewhere has some record of this whole thing with the Benson stage attack. There was amazingly little development of the story in the newspapers at the time and even later when Holliday was arrested by Behan, it seemed to be dropped rather easily. Poor reporting at the time but then, not likely many reporters went to journalism classes.

Frank Vaughn indicated that there was a Hearing, that there were three witnesses, and there were no names attached to his account, though some assumed the witnesses were the McLaury brothers and Ike Clanton as they had been at the Drew's station that night, apparently. It was also suggested that John Slaughter testified as well, but again; no record.

AS I have said before, I cannot see any reason to put much faith in the story that Behan got Kate drunk and therefore arrested Doc on her say-so, or that Behan ran into her on a drunken binge and used it to arrest Doc. There had to be an Affidavit and that would have to be filled out in front of a County Clerk for the Court, by hand, signed, and the person doing so would have to be sober! It doesn't sound applicable.

But the gossip about the ladies fighting amongst themselves doesn't sound too stable either, though it is plausible. So we are right back at the beginning but I still think there is something somewhere that might lend credence to the whole account.

  • Behan's witnesses against Doc/ Benson stagebfrey, Tue Dec 27 2022 19:46
    In Ed Bartholomews book, Wyatt Earp, The Man and the Myth, he asserts that Behan made a formal report on Jun 2 of Doc's alleged involvement in the Benson stage attempt. It was claimed that Kate had confided... more
    • This whole account is so... — Joyce A. Aros, Wed Dec 28 2022 10:34
      • Intriguing for surebfrey, Thu Dec 29 2022 11:40
        I have never heard of the McLaury brothers and Clanton near Drew's that night. We know that Billy Clanton was not in Charleston waiting for Doc to gamble? Accounts of when Doc returned to Tombstone in... more
        • You are exactly right!...Joyce A. Aros, Thu Dec 29 2022 13:42
          It is the key to the whole thing and many have given up on solving it because they only accept the written word. Certainly that is the most important base to start with, but circumstantial evidence is... more
          • InterestingButch Badon, Thu Jan 05 14:53
            Many old timers have left oral histories with the Arizona Pioneers Historical Society in Tucson, including Mr. Vaughn. As I recall, Vaughn asserted that Holliday was involved in the stage robbery. But... more
            • Butch/ interesting...Joyce A. Aros, Fri Jan 06 7:21
              It is very difficult to get historical records at the AHS in Tucson anymore. The society is under-funded and so there is not always someone there. Also, the ones there are not the old-rimers who knew what... more
              • Yes, wellButch Badon, Fri Jan 06 14:29
                Tom has, in my experience, been a very giving person when it comes to helping others. Butch
      • prosecution witnessesbfrey, Wed Dec 28 2022 11:11
        So in the first case against Doc in which he shot Joyce in the hand, the records state none of the prosecution witnesses appeared. Doc paid a fine and it was dropped. In his other court case involving... more
        • Milt JoycePeter Brand, Wed Dec 28 2022 13:54
          Milt Joyce did not let the matter go. He had influence and he used it. He had his clash with Holliday referred to the Grand Jury and they found a case against Holliday. The County then had to follow up.... more
          • And of courseButch Badon, Wed Jan 04 14:14
            We know all the pro-Earp biographers (Lake, et al) had no biases (sarcasm). As far as I am concerned no writer's work should be taken at face value. Everything needs to be checked and there are no exclusions... more
            • Butch/ and of course...Joyce A. Aros, Thu Jan 05 5:40
              You are so right. It is a lesson in humility. I read my own books randomly from time to time and still find things I wish I had worded better or actual errors. (not a lot, thank goodness!) I find such... more
              • You're on the right trackButch Badon, Thu Jan 05 12:19
                Joyce. However, everyone (including me) has an agenda. The difficulty is to review our work to recognize those instances where our bias has overridden facts. Once we recognize those errors, we have... more
                • Butch/ bias and then; bias...Joyce A. Aros, Fri Jan 06 7:46
                  I think bias is often over-used just because someone has accepted support for a certain viewpoint if the evidence can be supported. Not to be a public bore; and I have used it over and over...Ike... more
                  • ?Charlie, Tue Jan 31 9:52
                    I'm wondering if the Clantons were such honest ranchers why was 'old man Clanton' killed by Mexicans in Guadalupe canyon? Gee what was he doing there?
                    • ?/ Charlie....Joyce A. Aros, Wed Feb 01 10:20
                      ...good question; but if it is a question, could you be a little more specific? Just what was the reason for any white man to be moving cattle along the border area in the 1880's? Was it always rustling?... more
                    • Re: ?B.J., Wed Feb 01 2:34
                      Clanton was not involved in cattle rustling. He was ambushed and killed while bird watching on the mexican border.
                      • Yup!...Joyce A. Aros, Wed Feb 01 10:22
                        ...there you go! More of the same. What is the back-up; that's what I would like to see.
          • local court...bfrey, Thu Dec 29 2022 10:07
            So the matter didn't go to the grand jury? Behan made a report and referred charges. It than went to a local court hearing and 3 witnesses were called and testified. We do not have any records of this... more
            • I don't knowButch Badon, Thu Jan 05 14:56
              But if it did not go to the grand jury, it was because Lyttleton Price didn't want it to. Price, according to some reports, would not prosecute any "bad man." Some folks just don't believe Price had... more
          • chasing my tail...Joyce A. Aros, Wed Dec 28 2022 14:09
            ...No doubt you are correct, but I am chasing my tail not on the incident with Milt Joyce but on Holliday's connection with the Benson stage event. I felt the newspaper journalists did not do enough... more
            • ReportersButch Badon, Thu Jan 05 15:19
              in that era tended to be more sensational than they are today. One example I can cite is at least two accounts of the citizens (they are not specifically named in the Epitaph report except that they were... more
              • Just curious, how is the Epitaph quilty of...DL Staley, Fri Jan 06 8:36
                sensationalism and racism when they are reporting what John Behan said? HE gave a long testimony of his meeting with the Chinese concluded by saying that "John Chinaman would leave when he got good... more
                • DLButch Badon, Fri Jan 06 14:50
                  For me, racism is rather easy to spot and this (story) shouts its racism and sensationalism rather loud. Yes, many Tombstonites of the late 1800s wanted the Chinese to leave the city. They wanted the... more
                  • DLgobs, Mon Jan 09 8:32
                    Sanity at last
                  • Thanks for your reply...DL Staley, Sun Jan 08 8:39
                    Seems nothing has changed with the "news" media.
                    • Well,Butch Badon, Sun Jan 08 17:56
                      some aspects of it anyway. But there are a few solid journalists out there doing some excellent work. Butch
                  • racism is racism no matter where or when...erik hewitt, Sat Jan 07 21:34
                    If you wanna preach from your pirogue down on the bayou, understand the language you use to do it. Define "race"
                    • erick/ and it will never...Joyce A. Aros, Mon Jan 30 7:51
                      ... go away until everyone stops feeding it as a daily diet. The news media, especially!
                    • define raceButch Badon, Sun Jan 08 19:07
                      Race: An athletic event in which a number of human beings travel a specific distance using their legs to get from point A to point B in as little time as possible. The one who travels the fastest and... more
                      • Define raceSharon Cunningham, Tue Jan 31 8:12
                        RIGHT ON, BUTCH!!!
                        • Re: Define raceB.J., Wed Feb 01 2:41
                          If Butch had his way in college, he would be able to solve the quadratic equation using his 8th grade arithmetic skills. 🤔
                        • Re: Define raceB.J., Wed Feb 01 1:27
                          Tunnel vision is not a vice of the educated.
                    • I don'tButch Badon, Sun Jan 08 19:03
                      live along da Bayou any longer.
        • There does not seem to be any...Joyce A. Aros, Wed Dec 28 2022 12:26
          ...concrete answers. One can only try to connect the dots, apply reason and logic. It is like a Detective on a dead murder case; constant alertness to any clue down the road and sometimes the truth begins... more
    • Behan's witnesses against Doc/Benson stagejbfrey, Tue Dec 27 2022 19:46
      In Ed Bartholomews book, Wyatt Earp, The Man and the Myth, he asserts that Behan made a formal report on Jun 2 of Doc's alleged involvement in the Benson stage attempt. It was claimed that Kate had confided... more
      • This was discussed last year... I thinkPeter Brand, Wed Dec 28 2022 0:25
        Hi Bruce In his haste to sling mud at Holliday and Earp, I think Bartholomew made a mistake in regards to what he wrote on page 153 of his book. I think the Territory Vs. J. H. Holliday was a felony... more