Joyce A. Aros
the person you are likely referring to...
Thu Feb 02, 9:27

...doesn't have much interest in Doc Holliday and his glorious life story so she hasn't followed up on what the opinions of these historians might be. Perhaps you could enlighten us all? for her continuous 'extolling' on cowboy virtues, she'd probably like to see some support like subpoenas served or arrest warrants issued to contradict her naive viewpoint, as so far, seems a lot of story-telling on the parts of Wyatt Earp and John Clum that are conveniently enlarged upon.

...but please! Not that tired old crooked Behan avenue.

  • I wonderCharlie, Thu Feb 02 8:35
    If the person who here continues to extoll the virtues of the cow boys as "innocent, honest, legitimate ranchers" has to say about what these two historians opinions are of the cow boys and what they really... more
    • the person you are likely referring to... — Joyce A. Aros, Thu Feb 02 9:27
      • Re: the person you are likely referring to...Charlie, Fri Feb 03 9:17
        Oh you mean a subpoena from the one responsible for the crime area - JONNY BEHAN. You can't to be serious! The question was not about Doc , but the corrupt bunch of reprobates called honest ranchers... more
        • Charlie/ how about backing that up...Joyce A. Aros, Fri Feb 03 14:55
          ...with some concrete records. People my age don't put much stock in gossip. Some actual records; some logic? How about just considering how much territory is in Cochise County to cover on horseback. No... more
      • Re: the person you are likely referring to...Peter Love, Thu Feb 02 22:01
        Hi Joyce It strikes me that none of his contemporaries had a good word to say about Holliday, just rather weak defences against some of the common accusations. This must mean something.
        • Bat Masterson probablyDan Brown, Fri Feb 03 7:35
          summed Doc Holliday up well enough. Alcoholic, slowly dying, soured. He probably rubbed most people the wrong way, sooner than later. His reputation, like most folk's, is overblown. We can look at both... more
          • Agreed, butolds, Fri Feb 03 9:26
            He was a dentist. Nobody likes a dentist. They inflict pain. Even worse, he was a tubercular dentist. I'd conjecture that people may have feared his extraction forceps as much as his six-gun. And his cough,... more
            • Dentist DocSarah Stegall, Sun Mar 05 0:12
              ...except that Doc was well versed in the use of ether to treat dental patients; in fact, that's one of the reasons he went to dental school and not medical school. His uncle, whom he was named after,... more
            • Good pointsDan Brown, Fri Feb 03 18:21
              I would add that the disease itself might have affected his attitude. No antibiotics then. Fevers, chills, sweat, coughing, wheezing, coughing blood, pain, and bad breath would certainly shaped his reaction... more
              • Not to mentionSarah Stegall, Sun Mar 05 0:16
                the fact that alcohol is a very effective cough suppressant. I can personally attest to the efficacy of a combination of whiskey, hot water, and lemon. Or we can dispense with the water and lemon altogether.... more
            • Re: Agreed, butB.J., Fri Feb 03 11:59
              Olds, it is not a given that Doc was a (primary) alcoholic. Back in the old west days, not only was there no antibiotics for the tuberculin bacteria, but there was also no medication which would decrease... more
              • Rabbit tobaccoRobert Buckley, Sun Feb 05 15:48
                I’ve always been curious if Doc Holliday, being from Georgia, May have used rabbit tobacco to ease the symptoms of his tuberculosis. Many of the old Appalachian doctors that I’ve read about would prescribe... more
              • I get it, Billy.olds, Fri Feb 03 18:03
                I was just agreeing with Dan. Whether Doc technically was what we would consider alcoholic by contemporary standards is a moot point in my opinion. He was a chronic drinker and had good reason to be. He... more
                • Re: I get it, Billy.B.J., Fri Feb 03 23:41
                  Hey Olds, I am not sure what argument you are having? Why does it matter if Doc liked himself? Is it a moot point if the current cochise county attorney is an alcoholic? Is it important if the... more
                  • What we have hereolds, Sat Feb 04 9:03
                    is a failure to communicate. If you don't understand how self-esteem and self-awareness can impact the motivations that drives human behavior, then any explanation I might offer for why that is the case... more
                    • Re: What we have hereB.J., Sun Feb 05 5:39
                      Hey olds, I’m very impressed with your self anointed behavioral Heath education and expertise. I have two Psych degrees and have worked in behavioral health since 1970 … ….but it appears that you... more
                      • No offense intendedDan Brown, Sun Feb 05 15:18
                        But it's said that pride goeth before the fall, whilst low self-esteem follows most first dates and bad puns. Good luck to us all.
                      • Hit a nerve, eh?olds, Sun Feb 05 10:39
                        No disrespect to your stellar c.v., but my understanding of human behavior, as you put it, is essential to what I have been doing for a living since I left grad school in the late 1970s. Whether that... more
                • Good thoughts OldsPeter Love, Fri Feb 03 21:16
                  Although I don’t know we have any reliable sources of what Morgan thought of Doc. And from Wyatt’s testimony and later comments about his rivals trying to malign him via Doc, it is evident he was well... more
                  • Help me out here, Peter.olds, Sat Feb 04 15:58
                    I could swear that I read in more than one source, reliable or otherwise, that Morgan and Doc were "closer" than Doc and Wyatt. Kenny Vail would know, I betcha, but Kenny Vail ain't here. Certainly Doc... more
                    • Not surePeter Love, Sat Feb 04 18:41
                      At present I’m overseas and just going from memory. However, I thought the ideas that Morgan was a hothead and particularly pally with Doc all emanated from Boyer’s fiction. Certainly there are no newspaper... more
                      • Boyer's name is listed in virtually allDan Brown, Sun Feb 05 10:13
                        bibliographies concerning Earp and Holliday. Up until the 1990's he dominated the Tombstone legend. Many western writers accepted his claims. So, there may be some mention of a close Doc and Morgan... more
                    • Glen BoyerDan Brown, Sat Feb 04 16:44
                      pushed the Morgan and Doc as best pals theme. From there Michael Hickey and Ben Traywick may have run with it. I suspect Boyer thought it might have added a little more zest to the vendetta ride. I don't... more
                      • Good Lord!olds, Sat Feb 04 21:10
                        I've been Boyerzied! This is what happens when, having read too much, you arrive at a certain age and things begin to blur until you no longer can tell Glenn Boyer from Clete Boyer from Chef Boyardee.... more
                        • Olds was “Boyerzied“. ??? 😆😆😆B.J., Sun Feb 05 5:52
                          Olds, sorry that you were not administered any pre-op sedation (or at least a lubricant) prior to the history version of your colonoscopy.
                          • As I recall, Icon charged extraDan Brown, Sun Feb 05 15:14
                            for the pre-op sedation. He was that kind of guy. By the way, I have quite a collection of signed Boyer post-op works, which I am very willing to sell to any uninitiated collector of misinformation.
                            • Re: As I recall, Icon charged extraBJ., Sun Feb 05 17:14
                              Hey Dan, I remember years ago visiting Boyer’s (so called) ranch in New Mexico. I questioned Glenn multiple times about the “Clum Manuscript” and asked multiple times if I could check it out. As... more
                              • Re: Re: As I recall, Icon charged extraDan Brown, Mon Feb 06 9:31
                                I heard Boyer used to charge $2.00 to see the bed he claimed Earp passed away in. Over-charges aside, I have wondered to what degree, if any, Boyer believed his own lies? He invested most of his adult... more
                                • Wyatt Earp’s Death Bed….B.J., Mon Feb 06 10:24
                                  Boyer used to host an annual get-together at his (so called) ranch. I remember one lady who was a North Texas University Professor, each year would claim “dibs” as the Boyerite who was allowed to sleep... more
                                • You and Casey have the deep pleasure inDan Brown, Mon Feb 06 9:36
                                  knowing that Icon hated you. He hated this site. He hated being exposed. On the bright side, BJ's Tombstone History Forum probably hastened his final ride...still, his heirs did get a large sum of money... more
                          • Huh?olds, Sun Feb 05 10:30
                            Billy, could you elaborate? I'm apparently too dense to get your point (if there is one).
                            • Re: Huh?B.J., Sun Feb 05 17:00
                              Olds, you only posted one semi-coherent sentence. Are you feeling un-well?
                              • LOL.olds, Sun Feb 05 21:26
                                It's less a matter of feeling unwell than being unwell. That said, I do so loath concision. And clarity, clarity too, which more often than not only confounds.
                                • One might guess why you fall intoDan Brown, Mon Feb 06 13:49
                                  the post modernist camp or valley or high plain or whatever you might prefer to call or not call it. Speaking for myself, clarity has never done me much good. It's not like winning the lottery.
                • A sense of humor canDan Brown, Fri Feb 03 18:40
                  bouy low self-esteem. We sort of know what others thought of him, but I am inclined to think that he brought more than cards to the table. Low self-esteem, self-loathing, and guilt, when mixed with a quart... more
                  • Speaking of a sense of humor,olds, Sat Feb 04 9:23
                    that one brought a smile to my face: "not killing people is what's hard." Very good. True then, true now. In my experience, a sense of humor cannot only buoy self-esteem, it can be a life-saver. (No,... more
            • Good Grief, Olds!...Joyce A. Aros, Fri Feb 03 10:39
              ...Did you have to???
              • I believe I did, Joyce,olds, Fri Feb 03 17:13
                have to. Consider, it could have been far worse. I could have included a brief, capsule history of toilet paper as well (which wasn't widely available out West until the post-Civil War era), which is... more
                • Olds/ well, I am not really that...Joyce A. Aros, Sat Feb 04 6:31
                  ...squeamish. When working cattle with my husband years ago I did learn that a wadded up bunch of dried grasses was as comfortable as you were going to get sometimes. We all survived quite well without... more
                • Well said, I wouldn't want to go too far backDan Brown, Fri Feb 03 18:41
                  in time with out the booster shots.
                  • Dan/ I understand your feelings...Joyce A. Aros, Sat Feb 04 6:33
                    ...on the matter but then people like me feel that there is a limit to how much chemicals we want punched into our bodies; especially when we don't always know exactle what they consist of. To each hi... more
                    • Re: Dan/ I understand your feelings...Dan Brown, Sat Feb 04 12:26
                      I'm glad you understand my feelings, Joyce, but personally,I often suspect them of not being entirely on my side. So far as toxins go, it may be prudent to assume that we're already walking time bombs... more