Re: Seems to work ok!
Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:00am

I was wondering why I did get an email reply when you posted this. I forgot
that the Perl version of the site doesn't do email reply notifications due
to it just being a simple front end layer. Glad it worked well for you, I
noticed it seems to work pretty well hosted on Heroku as well.

yeah, the ISP routers seem to always be sorta bad. I know here with
Altice/Cablevision/Optimum (same company) they have the 'free Optimum Wifi'
built into every router to expand their Wifi network. Getting an
aftermarket router saves splitting the bandwidth between yours and
the free wifi.

It's a cool idea but executed kinda poorly. When my wife and I were in an
apartment that didn't have dedicated wifi, we used the free Optimum Wifi
and it was sooooo much more 'miss' than 'hit' it was barely worth it.
(Even being free.)

Btw, this message was posted via email by replying to the new list server
email address.


  • Seems to work ok! - Puckdropper, Sat Jun 03 2023 1:12am
    I get a quick flash when the page loads (probably going from having no content to display then content to display.) and it pops up. I'm of the opinion you should turn off your ISP-provided router's WiFi, hook your own router up to the modem and use that. I'm not sure if it's the router or Internet... more
    • Re: Seems to work ok!- Erik_, Thu Jun 08 2023 10:00am
      • So you can reply by e-mail? - Puckdropper, Sun Jun 11 2023 4:30am
        Neat! This has more useful features than xfinity tried doing the same thing, but I don't think I ever saw an xfinity SSID. Definitely not anywhere I was looking for Wifi. AT&T, same deal. After spending a few days in apartments in Kenya, I think the apartment buildings should really... more
        • Yep! New feature in this latest release - Erik_, Sun Jun 11 2023 4:00pm
          It's still not perfect and I realized after I was just about to release it that I went from having a separate notification server that handled sending emails to migrating that functionally to the main site, just to migrate away again. Well, possibly.... The new server currently just handles incoming... more
          • So you might have a message sent after the first - (unnamed), Tue Jun 13 2023 11:43pm
            that arrives before it? Time traveling NEMB messages? Most people just want reliable Wifi and don't need anything special. Even if there's someone that does want something special, the 10 apartments sharing the complex's wifi is 10 wireless routers not fighting for a channel. There's always those... more
            • Hm.. question about dates... - Erik_, Mon Jun 19 2023 4:00pm
              Your post made me start thinking about how I'm handling the message creation date when it gets imported via email. Right now, I use the timestamp of when it was processed and saved to the database, not when the email was actually sent. Do you think I should be using the timestamp of when the email was... more
              • So what happens if an email was delayed? - Puckdropper, Tue Jun 20 2023 12:28am
                The date in the e-mail might say Saturday but got stuck in a server (or forwarding) and didn't arrive until Monday. Would you go by the date your inbox received the message? That might be a little more accurate. What's the negative aspect of checking the inbox more frequently? Rather than polling,... more
                • Right now it would... - Erik_, Tue Jun 20 2023 12:00pm
                  Use the date of the next processing interval after it arrived in the mailbox. That's a good point. Email has a nasty habit of floating around in neverland sometimes before arriving at a mailbox. Even more so when the sending email address is getting flagged as potentially spam. I had that issue when... more
                  • Looks like IMAP has an IDLE command - Puckdropper, Wed Jun 21 2023 2:40am
                    that does something like you'd want. Establish the connection, go IDLE, and the server is free to do other things until a message comes in. I think I'd probably use the date I was processing the e-mail as my message board date and maybe add a note to the message with the e-mail date. That way your... more
                    • Ooooooh! That sounds like exactly what I need. - Erik_, Wed Jun 21 2023 8:56am
                      Unfortunately the IMAP client library I'm using doesn't support the IDLE command though I found another that does. Right now, I have this sub that polls every 15 minutes and performs a NOOP to keep the connection alive (and reconnect if for some reason it drops) sub perform_noop { my ($self)... more
                      • You're welcome! I just happened to type the right thing - Puckdropper, Thu Jun 22 2023 12:49am
                        It does seem like breaking out of IDLE to do something is a better solution than polling. I wonder how well it will work in practice?
                        • Tests number 2... - Erik_, Sun Jun 25 2023 2:29am
                          Just seeing if this will still get picked up automatically by the IMAP IDLE watch after it's been deployed for a tiny bit. Will need to check after it's been running for a few days... I've had issues where it went into an infinite crash loop. Hopefully I've sorted that out but who knows. :)
                          • Hope it works! Here's a reply if that helps testing. (nm) - Puckdropper, Tue Jun 27 2023 1:05am
                            • Sure. Let's give it another try... - Erik_, Tue Jun 27 2023 8:16am
                              Hopefully this gets picked up in a timely manner. This was sent around 8:17am
                              • *Wow. I gave it like 30s leeway with 8:17. - Erik_, Tue Jun 27 2023 8:39am
                                Posted almost instantly. Nice. IDLE seemed to really be the way to go with this.
                                • *And a reply from the normal version (nm) - Puckdropper, Tue Jun 27 2023 2:15pm
                                  • *...and an email reply! - Erik_, Tue Jun 27 2023 4:40pm
                                    Time: 4:40pm. (email replies require email body)
                                    • So what happens if the post is edited? - Puckdropper, Wed Jun 28 2023 5:30pm
                                      Does anyone get any notifications?
                                      • Nope. No notification on editing. - Erik_, Thu Jun 29 2023 1:54am
                                        Though it can only be done manually by admins/moderators of the message board so it should be a rare occurrence. That's an interesting thought though. Some sort of notification along the lines of "Hey, just a heads up... someone messed with your post. You might want to go check out what they did $link".... more
                                        • I'm not really sure what most sites do... - Puckdropper, Tue Jul 04 2023 3:08am
                                          Imagine an automated script going through and updating posts. Update on edit could possibly send hundreds of messages in a short time. I think most of the time a moderator needs to edit they probably don't want to draw extra attention to it. They're likely just removing something the site rules... more
                                          • Very good point. - Erik_, Wed Jul 05 2023 2:29am
                                            So it looks like leaving off any email updates on edits is the way to go.
                                • *Awesome! IDLE seems to be working great! (nm) - Puckdropper, Tue Jun 27 2023 2:15pm
                                  • Was that reply posted from the Perl site? - Erik_, Tue Jun 27 2023 6:33pm
                                    That's the only normal way I could think of that would cause it to not be in the regular logs or trigger an email. Edit: A-ha! Found it in the Perl site logs! :D Oof, 6 seconds to submit a new thread... I wonder if the Heroku version of the same site would have been any quicker. (Couldn't be much... more
                                    • Was that me or was that the system that took 6 seconds? - Puckdropper, Wed Jun 28 2023 5:30pm
                                      That's about as long as it took to write that post.
                                      • The Koyeb hosted Perl site is super slow. The size of the VM only has 128MB of RAM. Also, it's hosted in France and the database is located in the US so EVERY single DB transaction goes across the Atlantic ocean which takes some time. From the logs, it looks like almost all of those 6 seconds were... more
                                        • You can never beat data locality. - Puckdropper, Tue Jul 04 2023 3:02am
                                          I have to wonder, can a server in France talking to one in the US beat something speedyish, like a 30 year-old computer with a hard drive? That's probably a 386, so not too shabby.
                                          • More like a Pentium! - Erik_, Wed Jul 05 2023 2:39am
                                            According to Wikipedia ( ) it was released on 03/22/1993. (I was thinking 486 myself) My laptop that I write all this on is about 10 years old and runs everything locally at or better than Heroku does. So the France server might actually be as slow as something... more
                                            • Ok, Pentium Era - Puckdropper, Wed Jul 05 2023 4:22pm
                                              Socket 5. I still have an old NEC Ready 7022 around here somewhere, I upgraded it from a 75 mHz CPU to it's max speed of 100 mHz. Now you can buy Arduino-style microprocessors that run faster. Sometimes the age doesn't really make too much difference. The NVIDIA hybrid chip in this laptop is faster... more
                                        • That's a crazy difference. No wonder I was driving myself insane trying to get the Koyeb version to not be so slow. It's incredibly slow in comparison! Test was measured using the Firefox dev tools Network tab. Both posts measured are the ones below this one. So replying to the same exact message.... more
                                          • Why is my site running so slowly? - Puckdropper, Tue Jul 04 2023 3:00am
                                            Oh, because it is slow. 6 seconds, that's dial-up time.
                                            • You're not kidding! - Erik_, Tue Aug 01 2023 4:27pm
                                              I have ethernet plugged into my 486 and it takes about 10s or so before the page is usable on both the Java and Perl sites. Close to 15-20s before it finishes loading. The images are over https so they end up causing the browser to spin and eventually fail to load them which also hurts the loading times.... more
                                        • *Koyeb post test - Erik_, Fri Jun 30 2023 10:42pm
                                          • How much time did you waste typing the g's? (nm) - Puckdropper, Tue Jul 04 2023 2:58am
                                            • I was originally going to delete those test posts but decided to just leave them.
                                              • Wait, you're testing in production? - Puckdropper, Wed Jul 05 2023 4:24pm
                                                Don't you have a test forum or something? Shame Shame, everyone knows your name because it's on your post.
                                                • Not usually but... - Erik_, Wed Jul 05 2023 11:23pm
                                                  It's a case of 'It works on my machine!'. :D Who am I kidding... yes there's definitely some things that go out the door that probably should have more testing before doing so. The nice thing about how things are set up, it's very easy to revert deployments to the previous version or quickly deploy... more
                                                  • I definitely get, Well it's done. I can't see what could be - Puckdropper, Mon Jul 17 2023 3:40pm
                                                    wrong. Let's go! I think humans tend to be right just enough times to keep falling into the trap. :-)
                                                    • Just did a prod test now... - Erik_, Sat Jul 22 2023 1:05pm
                                                      Didn't work out so great. I added a feature that on certain email bounce error codes, it will auto unsubscribe that email address to avoid future sending. Well, I goofed setting some email headers and caused a bounce to my own address which auto unsubscribed me from everything. Looks like I missed... more
                                                      • If you didn't want emails, it worked great! - Puckdropper, Mon Jul 24 2023 6:38pm
                                                        Some receiving mail servers report to the sending server that a message was marked as spam. receives these messages and unsubscribes your e-mail address. It gets to be annoying when it's done incorrectly. (I've had to fish a few digests out of the spam bucket.) Is that basically... more
                                                        • Yes, more or less.. though it's off right now. - Erik_, Tue Jul 25 2023 12:24am
                                                          I'll probably try turning it back on in a few days. I wanted to make sure that the email headers fix I put in was working 100% before I turned back on the auto-unsubscribing. (So far, no issues) Below are the rough steps that trigger an auto-unsubscribe. If any step fails, no action is taken, just the... more
                                                          • I hadn't realized that things had gone so far - Puckdropper, Sat Aug 05 2023 4:06am
                                                            I remember hearing about domain keys when it first came out. Guess that's why my e-mail doesn't see as much spam as it used to, even though my address is posted publicly on Usenet. (Or is it just Usenet's dying out? Sad to see it go.)
                                                            • Yeah it's crazy now but also a good thing. - Erik_, Sun Aug 06 2023 4:05pm
                                                              It makes it sort of a pain as the person sending the emails but makes the quality of life of the recipients so much better than it was back in the day. I wonder how many more layers they can plop on over the coming years or if something will finally replace email. (Thinking probably not... Sort of like... more
                                                              • What they like about e-mail is it's insecure - Puckdropper, Mon Aug 07 2023 3:50pm
                                                                The average person doesn't know that, but it's really just a post card. Intended for recipient only, but not private. It makes it very easy to eavesdrop on it. Secure messages are things like Whatsapp. Will IM programs ever replace e-mail? Well, they've made e-mail look a lot like IM programs....... more
                                  • That's weird... - Erik_, Tue Jun 27 2023 4:53pm
                                    Your message I'm replying to and the other message you posted were at around the same exact time yet only the other message is in the logs and I only got an email notification for the other message not this one. I wonder what happened there. Crazy that there's absolutely no logs for it. It looks... more
                        • Alright, I hacked together the changes... - Erik_, Sun Jun 25 2023 1:59am
                          Let's see if this works. It's a major shift on how the email stuff works on the list server. I basically split the EmailClient module into two different ones to handle inbound and outbound as well as the inbound module now uses a whole new IMAP library than before. My unit tests are screaming but I... more
                          • *SUCCESS! IT WORKED! - Erik_, Sun Jun 25 2023 2:01am
                            Hopefully it doesn't bite the bullet now that it's running and crash out at some point if the IMAP connection craps out. There's a retry and everything in place, but who knows how it will behave now that it's running live. :)
                            • *Is the retry how you got into the infinite crash loop? (nm) - Puckdropper, Tue Jun 27 2023 1:06am
                              • Yeah. In the retry I tried something like... - Erik_, Tue Jun 27 2023 8:48am
                                This is after it was connected and only if the connection dropped: if (!$imap->IsConnected) { $imap->connect or die "Failed to connect"; } But there's either a bug with the IMAP library or my mail server doesn't like reconnecting like that. The $imap->connect wouldn't fail but still wouldn't connect... more
                                • It's probably idling out the IDLE - Puckdropper, Mon Jul 17 2023 3:42pm
                                  Some servers just don't want connections to be persistent so they'll kick them out, or the software will support say 256 simultaneous connections and the server will have to kick out someone when they get too many.
                                  • It would seem that's the case. - Erik_, Mon Jul 17 2023 4:56pm
                                    I have it currently set up to do 10 idle "still here" responses (I think 10...) before doing something else. Seems like it with usually make it to 10 but sometimes only to 8 or so before getting a 'BYE' response. Never the first couple so I think you're on to something with the server idling out of idle.... more
            • I don't think so.. but maybe? - Erik_, Sun Jun 18 2023 2:00am
              The messages are processed in the order that they're received in the inbox so the older message would get queued up first to be added. I'm guessing there could be instances where they get out of order. I forget if I'm using a hash to transfer the message list around anywhere in the code (I'm pretty sure... more
              • So out of order might happen, but it's extremely - Puckdropper, Tue Jun 20 2023 12:00am
                unlikely. I've run across things like that on message boards and usually they get resolved with "Hm, guess $name posted first." Or my eBay emails sometimes come in out of order... So I've already replied and resolved the issue, but I get an intermediate message a few days after it's done. Your ISP... more
                • Surprisingly they don't have a cap. - Erik_, Tue Jun 20 2023 12:00pm
                  Even though they're not great in any other area, they don't have a data cap unless you did something crazy. I saw some people posting that they've downloaded TBs of data without any issue. The other option we have here is FIOS which... more
                  • I thought they would... at least for legal reasons. - Puckdropper, Wed Jun 21 2023 2:01am
                    Surprising to find they didn't. What do you download to get TBs of data? Windows updates? Firefox nightly builds? (Seriously, every day there's a new version? Have they heard of long-term releases?)
                    • get you to ~6.5TB for the month. But yeah, I have no idea how people can download that much in a month. Maybe they're doing a recursive wget on the whole internet. haha
                      • I mean... isn't that what did? - Puckdropper, Thu Jun 22 2023 12:47am
                        wget -r It's only been running for how many decades? Maybe they're watching the 4K (or 8K?) Fireplace video. With real crackling wood sound. ?
                        • Yule log 24/7/365 - Erik_, Sun Jun 25 2023 2:05am
                          Just jam a CRT into the wall and call it a fireplace. Easy-peasy!
                          • Cheaper than a fireplace, too! - Puckdropper, Tue Jun 27 2023 1:07am
                            With TVs being like $150 (or free) now.
                            • As long as not streamed in 4k+ - Erik_, Tue Jun 27 2023 9:47am
                              I wonder if there was ever an 8 track style VHS-like cassette for TV? Something for exactly that purpose (ex: tvs on display playing looped video forever). No rewinding and it never has any interruptions. I just caught myself after writing that as I completely forgot how easy it is to hook up a computer... more
                              • Good question - Puckdropper, Sat Aug 05 2023 4:18am
                                And I'm going to say yes without doing any research. Research says it exists. It's just incredibly hard to do which makes it super rare. They did tape loops with audio tape, but the larger video tape was harder to keep working.
                        • Or did they use lycos or excite? - Puckdropper, Sat Jun 24 2023 1:20am
                          I'm pretty sure they didn't Ask Jeeves, though. I think that came later...
                          • Funny you mention Jeeves... - Erik_, Sun Jun 25 2023 2:13am
                            At band practice this past week we were joking about 'Asking Jeeves' so I gave it a try for what we were talking about. Long story short, it's results weren't good. Never was really a fan of Ask Jeeves. Before Google I always used HotBot and AltaVista.
                            • I haven't heard of HotBot. - Puckdropper, Tue Jun 27 2023 1:09am
                              Definitely used a lot of Altavista. It seemed to be the best one out there at the time. I think Yahoo! used their search results for a while, too.
                              • HotBot was the best until the 'big guys' killed it. - Erik_, Tue Jun 27 2023 10:00am
                                Yahoo and such started buying stake in their backend tech and then Lycos bought it out completely in 1999 and basically let it sit and rot so it fell behind in search results quality. (I guess not like it really matters, Google would be around in a few years and blow everyone away). HotBot's 'still... more
                                • That was definitely everything - Puckdropper, Wed Jun 28 2023 5:42pm
                                  we were looking for, too. Free e-mail, free downloads, Usenet, yellow pages, etc. Lycos as we know it is dead. It was "rebranded" or "bought out" by some corporate media group. It looks like it, too. Lots of eye catching stuff, no meat. Google's real problem is that everybody is writing for... more
                                  • I just took a look at Lycos - Erik_, Fri Jun 30 2023 9:56pm
                                    Probably one of their few hits for today. Haha Honestly, I've haven't heard anyone even mention them in years. What people are actually going there? Anyway.. it looks like at some point they scooped up Tripod and Angelfire. Tripod looked somewhat modernized but no longer offered free hosting. Angelfire... more
                                    • I dunno if their product is any good... - Puckdropper, Sun Jul 02 2023 5:20pm
                                      But they need to tell people about themselves. Maybe buy some cheap ad space during Friends reruns? I wonder if they kept the old accounts over time, too. Usually if you saw someone's personal homepage (I think maybe the Kes message board had something?) it was an angelfire link. That does look... more
                                      • "Lycos!? Looks like they're rerunning the ads too!" - Erik_, Mon Jul 03 2023 12:09am
                                        They did have some good advertising in the heyday though. I can still here 'Lycos, go get it!' to the dog in my head after all these years. But then again, I also can still hear 'Sit Ubu. Sit. Good dog *bark*' as well... I checked and yes! Both Tripod and Angelfire have kept all the old member sites... more
                                        • Oh wow, those sites look old - Puckdropper, Tue Jul 04 2023 2:58am
                                          No mega menus, no navigation, no high CPU usage. I do like their simplicity, though! Wasn't it neocities that intentionally tried to archive all of Geocities? (And isn't there a NE somewhere, too?) I've left notes for me and gone back and tried to understand them... sometimes it doesn't work... more
                                          • So much good/bad stuff from back then. - Erik_, Wed Jul 05 2023 2:28am
                                            I miss the days of people actually creating their own website/homepage. Just using QB as an example, there were so many random sites that had maybe a handful of programs someone wrote that aren't hosted anywhere else that have now been lost to the sands of time. We have but most of the time... more
                                            • Knowing you'll be left out of Google - Puckdropper, Wed Jul 05 2023 4:53pm
                                              and buried kills a lot of writing spirit. Everyone dreams of success in some form or another, it's rare that a site like NEMB survives with just two active people and another few that pop up every year or so. Hi Retna and Joe. I doubt you'll stumble on to Puckdropper's Place anywhere, even though... more
                                              • I didn't even think of that... - Erik_, Thu Jul 13 2023 9:05pm
                                                You're absolutely right. Back in the day, there was a decent chance to get new people finding your site via links or search engines. Now everything is condensed into Facebook, Reddit, discord, etc there's no chance really except for the few people who go out of their way to look. I know back when I... more
                                                • I'm now running an Ad on Facebook - Puckdropper, Sat Aug 05 2023 4:22am
                                                  Trying to get more interested eyeballs on one of my models. We'll see if we get anything other than someone impersonating Facebook (uh "Meta") saying my page had been reported 7 times. (Funny, I reported the post to actual Facebook and they've left it up. I'm sure they would have taken it down by... more
                                                  • A new retro web ring is a neat idea. - Erik_, Sun Aug 06 2023 1:27pm
                                                    This Retro Website Web Ring site owned by $site_name . Want to join the Retro Website Web Ring ? [ Previous 5 Sites | Skip Previous | Previous | Next | Skip Next | Next 5 Sites | Random Site | List Sites ] That would sort of be fun to throw together.... more
                                                    • Looks pretty easy, even for my rusty skills. - Puckdropper, Mon Aug 07 2023 3:58pm
                                                      All you need is a database or CSV file with websites. When they click the link, you move them on. A preview would be nice. Maybe not the picture preview common on most sites, but just the title of the next page. "Next: Pete's QB Site" "Previous: Nukem Enterprises" I'm paying them... They're... more
                                                • Remember the excitement of finding a cool new website? - Puckdropper, Mon Jul 17 2023 3:32pm
                                                  Someone would come across NEMB and be like "Wow, this guy's got a lot of stuff! Maybe I should call in sick?" Social media could be great, but my Facebook is 1 non-ad post, 2 ad posts, and then a bunch of nonsense while random things from days ago or randomly selected (but useless) posts from a few... more
                                                  • Yeah it was great when you found something cool - Erik_, Sat Jul 22 2023 3:24pm
                                                    Then spending the time checking out all the pages and usually saving the link somewhere to visit later again. Too bad a lot of times you end up finding a page and it was like 'wow I can't wait for this QB game to be released!' and then you see it hasn't been updated in a few years. Or worse, you find... more
                                                    • I can't remember the last really cool site - Puckdropper, Mon Jul 24 2023 6:52pm
                                                      I found. Well, it was probably Great for when you need information on the car, lots of discussion and minimal assorted junk. They saved me a few hundred dollars and weeks of down time by telling me which capacitors I needed to replace instead of having to take the car to the dealer for... more
                                                      • I'm worried will go away soon. - Erik_, Wed Jul 26 2023 11:32pm
                                                        They had the old flip phone mobile version of the site up and running up until they made the much hated API changes and silently killed it. It was pretty crap and I'm sure almost no one used it but it does seem to be completely dead now and redirects to the main site. Archive link as recent as 03/23:... more
                                                        • That's my worry too, but I do still see a lot of momentum - Puckdropper, Fri Jul 28 2023 5:03pm
                                                          on the old site. Is there a way to monetize things without ads or stupid gimmicks? Webapps do seem to be all the rage. I found one the other day that's a complete CAM program. (Takes a drawing and converts it to gcode.) Kiri:Moto. It was part of an open source package, so if I did really like... more
"Forces act when not restrained" - Puckdropper